In the latest episode of “The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast,” host Darren Wurz sits down with Gwen Griggs, founder of Advos Pro and Advos Legal, to explore innovative strategies for law firm profitability and efficiency. This compelling discussion reveals how law firms can enhance client satisfaction and streamline operations by adopting a deliverables-based pricing model.
Key Takeaways from this episode:
1. The Importance of Upfront Investment for Long-Term Profitability
Gwen Griggs kicks off the conversation by emphasizing the critical role of upfront investments in ensuring long-term profitability for law firms. She points out that allocating resources efficiently from the start can pave the way for a more sustainable and profitable future. This strategic perspective helps law firm owners understand how proactive investments in technology and processes can yield significant dividends.
2. Leveraging Historical Data and Agile Thinking
Griggs delves into her strategy of setting a range of points for projects and using historical data to set expectations. By aligning her approach with agile thinking, she underscores the importance of iteration and adjustment based on new information. This adaptive mindset is essential for managing projects effectively in a dynamic legal environment.
3. Challenges in Predicting Scope and Managing Project Changes
One of the central challenges Griggs discusses is accurately predicting project scope and managing changes. Law firm owners often struggle with scope creep and unforeseen adjustments, which can derail even the best-planned projects. Griggs offers a practical solution through a points-based system for tracking projects and communicating with clients. This system not only helps in managing the budget but also brings transparency to the client relationship.
4. Streamlining and Automating Repeatable Tasks
To implement these strategies effectively, Griggs suggests law firms start with streamlining and automating repeatable tasks. Processes like onboarding can be automated to enhance efficiency and reduce administrative burden. By leveraging historical data, firms can set realistic expectations and milestones, driving both efficiency and profitability.
5. Transitioning from Billable Hours to Deliverables-Based Pricing
Griggs and Wurz discuss the limitations of the traditional billable hour model. Griggs highlights how this model misaligns with client goals and hinders deep relationships. In contrast, her deliverables-based pricing model offers predictability and control for clients while incentivizing the firm to employ technology and efficiencies. This approach has been successfully implemented in various practices, reducing administrative burdens and increasing profitability.
6. Encouraging Mindset Shifts for Effective Implementation
For law firms to fully embrace this model, a shift in mindset and processes is crucial. Griggs emphasizes that focusing on deliverables rather than billable hours fosters client satisfaction, a thriving team, and an enjoyable legal practice. The emphasis on agile scrum thinking and frequent client communication ensures that the firm remains aligned with client needs and expectations.
Conclusion
This enlightening episode of “The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast” highlights the transformative potential of Gwen Griggs’ deliverables-based pricing model for law firms. By investing upfront, leveraging historical data, and shifting to a deliverables-focused approach, law firms can achieve long-term profitability and client satisfaction.
Resources:
- Book a Call with Darren
- Wurz Financial Services
- The Lawyer Millionaire: The Complete Guide for Attorneys on Maximizing Wealth, Minimizing Taxes, and Retiring with Confidence by Darren Wurz
- LinkedIn: Darren P. Wurz
Connect with Gwen Griggs:
- Linkedin:Gwen Griggs
- Website:ADVOS Pro
- Website:P3 Method
- Website:ADVOS Legal
- Website:ADVOS Pro Resources
About our guest:
Gwen Griggs, co-founder of ADVOS legal and ADVOS Pro, has a background in Big Law and C-suite roles. In ADVOS legal, she and her partner built a new model, that – instead of hours – measures what matters to the client, team, and owner. (Click here for more about Gwen’s legal experience.) With ADVOS Pro’s training and systems, they help other firms break up with the outdated billable hour model and begin measuring their worth in expertise and results. Gwen’s superpowers are big-picture vision and client experience. At ADVOS Pro, she is leveraging her powers to transform the legal industry, so it delivers an incredible, fulfilling experience for lawyers and their clients.
Transcript:
Darren Wurz [00:00:42]:
Could ditching the billable hour actually make you more efficient and more profitable? Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire, where we help ambitious law firm owners like you expand your businesses, maximize your profits, and grow your wealth. The billable hour inherently has some challenges. It’s difficult for clients to understand, and it’s tough because there’s a lot of administrative work that goes into tracking those hours and making sure that you’re doing that efficiently. Not only that, you can get in trouble for not tracking your hours correctly and reporting them correctly. Well, our guest today is going to tell us about an alternative model called deliverables based pricing, one that’s centered around client outcomes rather than actual hours being billed. Gwen Griggs is the founder of advocacy and advocates legal. She’s been in big law, started her own law firm, and now helps other law firm owners do the same. All right, we’re here speaking with Gwen Griggs of advos Pro.
Darren Wurz [00:01:48]:
And, Gwen, I want to start off with a great question for you right off the bat here, because you’ve kind of developed a new model, that business that law firm owners can follow. Many law firm owners cling to the billable hour, and it is perhaps as old as the law itself, maybe. I don’t know.
Gwen Griggs [00:02:08]:
I think really the fifties and sixties, it isn’t as old as we might think it is.
Darren Wurz [00:02:17]:
Well, yeah, that is actually very interesting. Um, well, let’s. Let’s talk about that. The billable hour. In your view, this model is actually holding law firm owners back from success. Why is that?
Gwen Griggs [00:02:30]:
Oh, my gosh. Don’t get me started. There’s so many reasons. Um, one, I think the most critical in our mind is you’re just not aligned. Right. Your client comes to you with a goal. They want you to accomplish something. Right.
Gwen Griggs [00:02:45]:
Joe is selling his business. Mary is starting a company. They want you to do something for them, and they don’t want you to spend more time on it, but you make more money if you spend more time on it. Right off the. And clients understand that when I was practicing and billing by the hour. You could just almost hear in your client’s voice that they didn’t want to talk for very long. They wanted to get off the phone. They didn’t want to answer questions.
Gwen Griggs [00:03:16]:
They thought if you were asking questions, that maybe it was to make the call longer. So many stories of the client experience of someone’s asking me about what I did this weekend or my family, and I’m thinking, am I paying them $500 an hour to ask these questions? And so it’s just really hard to build a deep relationship with someone when every word is being counted as something they’re having to pay for. So alignment is number one. It also doesn’t like, from the lawyer standpoint, getting to know the client, that experience, feeling like you’re really helpful. If you’re stymied in that, then the experience of being a lawyer isn’t as rich and meaningful as it can be when you’re part of a management team and you know all the people and you care about them and help them build. And I’m not saying that lots of lawyers who bill by the hour don’t do those things. It’s just that the business model itself creates some friction there and creates a challenge for them to do it that way. But lots of great lawyers know that they need to build great relationships and do and don’t build their clients for those things, but it just, you know, the client knows they’re paying by the hour, so it makes them question, right.
Gwen Griggs [00:04:38]:
And then who should know better what it should cost the lawyer. Right. But the client is often doesn’t know what it’s going to cost for a couple of months. So then their experience of hiring a lawyer, you know, it just sort of cycles down.
Darren Wurz [00:04:55]:
Yeah, yeah. It creates a lot of uncertainty there.
Gwen Griggs [00:04:58]:
Yeah, I can go on. I just like trying to. Pause. Pause.
Darren Wurz [00:05:02]:
Yeah, yeah. So for our listeners who might be less familiar, can you explain the model that you’ve built? So, at Advos Pro, and this comes from your own experience, right. In your own law firm, you have something called deliverables based pricing. Tell us a little bit about what that is and how that works, and.
Gwen Griggs [00:05:22]:
I’ll go back a little bit to say the origin because it helps to understand a little bit. Whitney and I, my business partner, both were big law billing by the hour. We had that experience, and we both went into a role as general counsel of a company where you did get to build relationships. You were part of a management team. You were paying attention to the p and L. And prioritizing the legal work within the resources you had. Then we both had an opportunity to be in an operational role, which was really fun. Right.
Gwen Griggs [00:05:52]:
Like lawyer background, lawyer experience. And then we’re working in a business and you get to see the role lawyering plays in the overall business, which I’ll tell you, when I started off at big law, big law, like we thought the world revolved around us, truthfully. Right. Like you would read a contract and see that it got signed and it has some, you know, unfavorable indemnity. And the lawyers would all, I can’t believe the CEO signed this contract. Right, but they, right, but they’re not thinking about all the other reasons that the, that the business needs to sign that contract and it’s not driven by the chance that there’s going to be a dispute down the road. So we took all of those things and some of it understanding that a lot of businesses, their expertise, their effort complexity, right, that is a component of what they’re selling, just like what lawyers are doing, but they’re not selling based on hourly billing. And I, the client knows what they’re paying beforehand.
Gwen Griggs [00:06:56]:
They make a commitment, they know what it’s going to cost. They’re able to budget, they’re able to predict, they’re able to be in control. So we really said we’re going to do all of the same things. We’re just going to price it differently. So instead of paying for how long did it take us, we’re going to pay for what did we actually deliver. And in a complex project, there can be 50 deliverables. There can be a lot of different things that are components of that. And we may not know on the front end what all those deliverables are going to be, but we adopted sort of agile scrum thinking and said we know where, we know what the ultimate goal is and we can plan the next two weeks, four weeks.
Gwen Griggs [00:07:38]:
And because we have a lot of experience, we can tell you what, what you’re probably going to spend within this range. And then we’re just keeping the client really informed along the way of here are the things that we delivered on and whether you’re on or off, off pace with using the points and what the budget is.
Darren Wurz [00:08:00]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That’s wonderful. I love thinking about new ways of doing pricing in the financial world. I mean, pricing has evolved in many ways. There were old, the old commission based structures got replaced with fee based structures. And in our business, we’ve replaced that with a flat monthly fee to try to really align the fee with the services, because we felt like the old models were just too murky. So this is great. You have this new idea in the legal world, and I love it.
Darren Wurz [00:08:36]:
How is this better? It’s obviously better for the clients because they have that certainty. They know where they’re going. They kind of anticipate what it’s going to cost. Talk to us a little bit about how this is better for you as a law firm owner.
Gwen Griggs [00:08:49]:
Sure. Well, and I’ll say we are metrics driven in everything we do. So we think of thrilled clients, thriving teams, strong community, outsized results. Those are our four pillars, and we measure each of them. Right. So, thrilled clients, we use an NP’s score net promoter score so that we know what our clients think and get feedback. That’s been a phenomenal tool. The thriving team.
Gwen Griggs [00:09:14]:
Right. Survey our employees similarly. Right. So basically a net promoter score for our employees, then for us, it’s a couple of things. One, it’s. We really do build those relationships that we love with our clients. So that makes the experience of lawyering like you’re advocating for someone you really believe in, you’re vested in their wins, and that just makes practicing law more enjoyable. But it also, because we are being paid for delivering, we now have every incentive to use technology to adopt AI, to find efficiencies and take what I call the drudgery out of lawyering, including tracking every six minutes of your day, which is not a fun.
Gwen Griggs [00:10:08]:
Is not, you know, however long it takes you. It’s not fun time. Right. You’re not enjoying writing down every six minutes or capturing every six minutes of your day. So we’ve taken all that out. We’ve replaced it with more efficiency. Our team gets to learn faster. Like it’s just that virtuous upward cycle of what.
Gwen Griggs [00:10:28]:
Which is what happens when people are aligned. Right. When we’re all aligned for the same goal, then we’re all rowing really hard. And then for us, too. Far more profitable. Far more profitable than it was an hourly billing model. For lots of reasons. One, we are fully.
Gwen Griggs [00:10:47]:
The client pays in advance, so we have no receivables questions. We have none of those awkward conversations and hard conversations. It’s not unlike what you do, right. It’s a monthly fee that. And then we’re going to tell you if you’re on or off track, or do we adjust what we’re doing work wise to keep you within the budget? Which is what a general counsel does. Right. You don’t have unlimited resources. You don’t act like you have unlimited resources.
Gwen Griggs [00:11:12]:
So let’s just be honest about the limited resources and how do we use them best? Yeah.
Darren Wurz [00:11:19]:
Yeah. So efficiency and profitability. And I’m guessing that, well, you know, first of all, aligning financial incentives with outcomes is really critical. And this is an important concept in economics, trying to align government policy with financial incentives. That’s why we have tax law. It incentivizes certain things, the behaviors that the government wants to see. So the model that you have actually incentivizes efficiency. The billable hour.
Darren Wurz [00:11:51]:
This might sound controversial, but it’s true. It actually incentivizes inefficiency, even though few lawyers out there probably really want to be inefficient, but it’s just not. That’s the natural alignment of the incentives there. So I find that very, very interesting. And then I’m guessing that you mentioned profitability. You could actually be maybe more profitable and be more cost effective to the client at the same time. Am I right about that?
Gwen Griggs [00:12:21]:
Absolutely right. And really what clients want is control and predictability. So they’re not necessarily spending less with us, but they’re spending it in a way that they know what they’re getting. And then here’s a great example. We’ve got a client who’s a pretty high user of our services. And so every contract that comes through, we’re looking at it, and they pay for it. Right. They pay a flat fee, essentially, for each of those components.
Gwen Griggs [00:12:49]:
But we’ve had such a volume now that I said, you know, going into next quarter, I actually think non disclosure agreements, for example, we could create a template of what is acceptable change, what are acceptable changes, and what are not acceptable changes. And your CFO can be the one to make sure. And then, yes, there might be one or two, but that several times a week, like, 90% of them, that can be handled well, that kind of thinking just really doesn’t happen if you’re billing by the hour. Right. Like, I’m doing less work, I will do less work. Right. But I’m confident that we will have other work to do. So I’m not concerned about that.
Gwen Griggs [00:13:33]:
But it’s right for the client. The client appreciates it. We do that. We call it a sales acceleration process. We do it in all, like, NDA master service, like that whole process. How can we streamline it? How can we give our client a link and they can go send the docusign and we get a copy immediately? Like, just where are those efficiencies that we invest in? Because it’s best for the client and then we’re not doing the. Did we get the copy? Did we not get the copy? The parts that are just. There’s no joy in.
Gwen Griggs [00:14:08]:
No one’s enjoying that part of the. Part of the practice.
Darren Wurz [00:14:12]:
Yeah, absolutely. So could you share like now you do this with clients in your practice with adverse pro. Right. Helping them figure out how to implement a system like this. Do you have any stories to share about how this has really worked for a client or even for yourself? How maybe it started.
Gwen Griggs [00:14:33]:
Right, well, so started in 2015 and lots of examples on the law firm side. And then really this year on advocacy, we’ve been doing one off consulting with people and they’ve had very similar responses of the same type of. So we’ve done it in IP firm, like a real estate firm, a tax firm. This year we’re starting to create CEO roundtable groups, essentially small groups of people who want to change. And so those are the ones this year that are doing it. And what we found was ours is so particular, our general counsel role is so particular that yes, we are a great model and a lot of people can learn from it. And also learning from each other is a really key part. But things like trying to come up with some of the examples.
Darren Wurz [00:15:31]:
Yeah, let’s break it down. Like how would you start thinking about this in a law practice? Maybe pick a specific practice area and give us an example of how we might start to break this down. Transforming from the billable hour into a more deliverables.
Gwen Griggs [00:15:50]:
And the one that probably comes to mind easiest is an intellectual property practice, which we have had clients that have done this. And one I’m thinking of in particular, they were already telling the world they were flat fee, but then, which I think is true in a lot of IP practices. But then within the side, the firm, they still were tracking all of their time. And so what was happening was they still had all the administrative burden of tracking all your time, looking at your time. Then they had to allocate time among the people who were working within the firm. Right. And so there was a lot of administrative burden with some of the, you know, some of the partners doing the allocation between, you know, on a matter. So we were able to come in and help them think, you know, 80% of the time it’s probably going to be the same.
Gwen Griggs [00:16:43]:
So how can we put in an automated system that says 80% of the time this is the default. And then there might be some exceptions, but you’re looking at just those exceptions. So you’re reducing the hours spent on tracking time and billing and allocating credit. I think in that example, we went from, like 40 hours in a month to two or three. So that is not billable time. Right. Like, that is administrative time. Right.
Gwen Griggs [00:17:16]:
Which means you’re going to be more profitable. Right. Because you’re not paying your people to do that part of the work.
Darren Wurz [00:17:23]:
Okay. Yeah. So you actually, you free up a lot of time just on the administrative side, not having to track the hours. And that’s very interesting that they were, you know, had that like a flat fee system for their clients, but internally they were still kind of thinking in the old way of the billable hour. Right.
Gwen Griggs [00:17:41]:
Which I think is really common and I’ll say, too, when we talk with clients. So, like, our clients who are clients, all believe there is a better way. Right. They believe there should be a better way and they’re learning it and putting it into practice. But when we talk to people who say things like, you know, I tried flat fee billing and it didn’t work. Right. We hear that a lot, but it’s because they said, I tried flat fee billing, but I still tried to make it work in a billable hour model. And so then I.
Gwen Griggs [00:18:10]:
And the truth is, the first time you do it, you might, because you’re creating the processes and creating the templates and doing blueprints and automation. You might not if you really dissected the hours, make money. Although I have a whole opinion of. Right, how much is really billable? How much do you need to be profitable? But that investment in the first makes it so that the second and the third and the fourth now can be far more profitable. But if you’re dissecting the hours, then you might say, oh, I lost on it. And the other challenge is in a world where you said, I know the whole scope on the front end, but I often. You don’t. So when the scope changes, if you haven’t created the flexibility, like we do in our world, right, where there’s a.
Gwen Griggs [00:18:59]:
It’s based on deliverables, then, yeah, you might, if you’ve committed and you’ve said, this is what I’m going to get paid for this thing, and it becomes a bigger project, then it might not work. But that’s why we did it the way we do it.
Darren Wurz [00:19:18]:
Okay, so how do you plan for some of those contingencies where maybe things go, you know, get a little bit too complicated and, you know, kind of a standard matter, what do you do there?
Gwen Griggs [00:19:29]:
Well, so on the front end, we’ll say a range right. Just picking them, we might say between ten and 15 points is what we use as. So there’s a range from the beginning because we know there are some variables in the course that we have and the way we’ve taught it. We suggest you go back and look historically at what is the high and low of all of those similar things that you’ve done. Start small, start with something you do commonly. And then what, as the lawyer who did the work, what was the reason that one was really efficient, what was the reason that some were higher? And then explaining that to the client on the front end. In our world, we think a lot of transactions. So we’ll say, we think that’s a, call it $20 to $30,000 if it’s a really small transaction.
Gwen Griggs [00:20:22]:
And here, what we don’t know on the front end is how difficult the other lawyer is going to be on the other side. We don’t know what diligence is going to happen. There could be an ERISA issue or something wrong with your capitalization table. Like there, there can be issues that we don’t know about right now. If all those things are true, it’ll end up being on the lower end. Right. If all those things are like not a problem. If some of those things turn out to be an issue, then it’s going to be on the higher end.
Gwen Griggs [00:20:52]:
And the diff. And the part of it is along the way we’re saying to them, right, you’re on track for the point, you know, so in a transaction we get paid some to start and then every 30 days until it closes and we true up at closing and we’re letting them know. Right. You’re on track, you’re off track. This is looking like the higher end, the lower end. And so that, and sometimes there’s decisions to make. Right. So you want to make this complex earn out, which we didn’t think about at the very beginning.
Gwen Griggs [00:21:23]:
If you do, that’ll be a point. Right. That’ll be extra. You can decide to, oh, I don’t want to do that, or I do want to do that and I’m willing to pay almost like game day decisions. But they’re in the, they’re in the driver’s seat as opposed to the lawyer ran down a rabbit hole that I didn’t know you were going to run down until after you ran down it. Right. And now there’s the friction that happens because they didn’t stay in control. Does that make sense?
Darren Wurz [00:21:53]:
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So you have kind of a point system built in there and they can use certain numbers of points within there. You really have to think through what all is in, involved in a matter. Right. And the potential pathways that that might take. Right.
Darren Wurz [00:22:14]:
That might take some time and some investment, but on the front end. But that’s going to.
Gwen Griggs [00:22:20]:
No, I think for the, for your listeners out there who are familiar with agile. Right. Like agile thinking, scrum thinking. So how technology has been built for, I think since the seventies or so, that’s, that’s really when that became a more common way to do it. They’ll say, we know what the goal is and we’re going to start and we’re going to use the resources we have. Right. And then we’ll move. Then once, you know, a month from now or two weeks from now, we’ll have more information.
Gwen Griggs [00:22:49]:
Then we can have another conversation about are we on track, off track and just keep iterating and that. So for our clients where we’re really just general counsel, that, like, I have no idea what we’re doing for them in q three, but I know they’re in, you know, maybe they have a lot of sales contracts or they have some employee issues and they’ve got this kind of tokens. Right. Bucket of points. And they know that they’re going to use those points for that. So you don’t have to, I mean, you, it’s a little bit like how far can we see, right. We’re going to plan as far as we can see and then we’re going to pick our head up and see where we are and talk about is, are we on track or off track with the budget? And you do, to your point, you do it long enough and you, like in our world we can look back at all the transactions we’ve done. There’s enough of them to say they’re always within this margin of difference.
Gwen Griggs [00:23:49]:
In terms of point usage. I think of it a little bit like an allowance. When you go to build a house, something’s going to happen. I don’t know what it is, but something will. And it would be foolish for me to say we can build the house for x. We know something’s going to happen. So plan for that. You know, that extra part that we don’t know as we sit here right now.
Darren Wurz [00:24:15]:
Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. I love this. You know, so gwen, if someone is looking to start this in their practice, where should they begin? You MentiONed the first Kind of, you know, taking a look back at the previous things theY’ve done and seeing, You Know, what those costs are. But what are some of the other things they need to think about just in the initial phase, quick wins they can do to kind of start the process of moving towards this kind of stuff? Sure.
Gwen Griggs [00:24:42]:
A couple of different things. One, I would say look at the work you do. So any law firm, even if they’re doing high end work, there is some element of the work they’re doing that they’re doing repeatedly and could be streamlined and automated, and they probably know what that is like. Maybe it’s drafting operating agreements. There’s something in their practice that they do, or filing a trademark application if they’re so look at that. Think big start, small idea. So where can we, and honestly, for some of our clients, we will pick something that is not even the deliverable of client work. So we will look at, because you do need systems, you do need a way to track this automatically.
Gwen Griggs [00:25:26]:
We’ll look at your onboarding process. Where is it in our onboarding process that we can create efficiency and the team get really used to that agile thinking of like, we are going to get better every single time we do it. We’re going to document every single time we do it. We’re not going to have some large SOP process. We’re going to, when the project is right in front of us, we are going to just document what we’re doing along the way and get, we call it a QA check, get someone to check the work and make sure we agree. But now we’ve got a documented process, now we can be efficient, more efficient every time. Where can we automate? The nice thing about starting with something that’s not client facing is the team gets sort of used to that if that’s the direction you’re heading. But if you pick something like operating agreement, trademark application, whatever, documenting it, because ultimately you’re trying to get more efficient, that’s the goal.
Gwen Griggs [00:26:21]:
But looking back historically at your numbers to see what, for that thing we picked, what is, you know, what are some variables? What have we spent historically? And then because you’ve got a document with the process, you’ve got this, where are the milestones along the way? Right? So how can we break it into pieces that can have, that can have components?
Darren Wurz [00:26:48]:
Great. Great. Well, I hope many law firm owners listening find the courage to start moving in this kind of a direction. I think it’s really innovative. Gwen, lastly, I want to give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about what exactly you do with Advos Pro and where people can learn more about you if they want to learn more or get in touch with.
Gwen Griggs [00:27:13]:
I love that. Thank you. Thank you. So we have a website. Advocate is a great place to learn more about what we’ve done. We’ve had a cle that you can access from the website. We’re on LinkedIn. That’s really the platform where you’re going to find the most about us.
Gwen Griggs [00:27:33]:
We also do an event once a month called off the clock, and it’s completely free. We are passionate that the profession needs to change. People who become clients of ours obviously are paying, but there’s a whole lot of content out there where we’re trying to help people understand what are the things they could do so that they run their business more like a business, the business serves them. We say build a promance, right, a law firm you love that, loves you back.
Darren Wurz [00:28:04]:
I love it.
Gwen Griggs [00:28:06]:
So lots of content on our website, and then we have the off the clock and we have this free community for law firm owners to share ideas, to refer, work back and forth, to ask questions about how to solve a particular problem. Yeah. So, and we’ve shared in that community. When people will ask, like, what is the one pager that we use with our clients? Like it’s out there, we’re happy to share. You know, I really do think there’s a better way and clients love it. And so, like, everyone should have happy clients.
Darren Wurz [00:28:39]:
That would be a great, absolutely wonderful. Well, Gwen, thank you so much for joining us today. A lot of great resources you mentioned there. We’ll make sure to put all those in the show notes. So if you’re listening, make sure you check out the show notes so you can connect with Gwen and learn more about advocacy pro and the work that they do. Gwen, thanks for coming by and talking with us today.
Gwen Griggs [00:29:01]:
Thank you so much. Really great to be here. Thank you for having me.
Darren Wurz [00:29:05]:
You’re welcome. Thank you. Well, a big thank you to Gwen Griggs for joining us today and hopefully giving you some great ideas on how you can innovate when it comes to billing and client service. You know, this is really, really interesting stuff to me, and I mentioned this in the episode about how we have developed our own different, innovative model. And I challenge you as a law firm owner to think like a business owner. You don’t have to follow the traditional law firm routes that big law companies have used for many, many decades. You can innovate and you can create new ways of doing things, thinking about what is the best way, not only to deliver service to your clients, but to build an efficient and profitable law practice. Well, as I mentioned in the show, the way that we price our services is similar.
Darren Wurz [00:29:55]:
It’s different from the industry. Most financial advisors use a percentage of assets, but there’s a lot of conflicts inherent in that, and it’s murky. There’s a disconnect between the planning services that you’re getting and the fee, perhaps that you’re paying. So what we’ve done in our business is create a new way of working with clients where we ditched the AUM model for a flat monthly subscription fee. And there’s different packages that we’ve created depending on the level of service that you need. But each of those packages, you know exactly what you’re paying for and you know exactly what services that you are getting. If you’d like to learn more about that, feel free to schedule some time with me. The link to my calendar calendly will be in the show notes.
Darren Wurz [00:30:42]:
And of course, follow me. Follow me on LinkedIn for more great ideas on how to maximize efficiency and maximize profitability in your law practice. Well, this has been the lawyer millionaire podcast. I’m your host, Darren Wurz, here to help you expand your business, maximize your profits, and grow your wealth. Thank you so much for listening. Come back and join me next time.
